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Post by livedylan on Sept 1, 2004 4:50:21 GMT -5
I see that Bill Pagel is noting that new dates are likely to be announced shortly for a Fall tour to follow on from the ball park shows with Willie Nelson.
Did anyone see one of the ball park shows? Have you heard any of the recordings? IMHO, Dylan sounds unwell and I think it would be in everyone's interests if the guy took a break. Is there anyone out there who honestly believes that he "sounds great" or that "his lowdown growl-type voice brings out new depths in the material"?[quotes from recent reviews by fans]
I've been listening to Dylan for over 25 years; I'm a big collector of live shows; I lived through the worst of the 1991 shows; yet I can honestly say that 2003/2004 is the only time I have thought that Bob should give it a rest.
Is it just me? Is everyone else listening back to the ball park recordings and honestly thinking that these are great shows?
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Post by aaronburr on Sept 1, 2004 5:29:16 GMT -5
Does livedylan have any personal knowledge of why dylantree/watchtower are taking a LONG break?
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Post by livedylan on Sept 1, 2004 5:43:28 GMT -5
Does livedylan have any personal knowledge of why dylantree/watchtower are taking a LONG break? Only as much as anyone else: they have suffered a server failure. The loss of dylantree/dylanpool/watchtower in one hit does suggest that it was a big mistake by the watchtower crew to throw their lot in with dylantree.
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Post by simpletwist on Sept 1, 2004 6:45:49 GMT -5
Well I think the ballpark shows are better than last winter's shows. Not sure that a long rest will help the voice. Could well be permanent. If a rest would retore the voice that would be great. But then how long would the improvement last? Personally it'll be a sad day when we can no longer see Bob perform live. I'll take him as he is....
Simpletwist (Bill)
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Post by aaronburr on Sept 1, 2004 7:08:26 GMT -5
simpletwist may be missing the point. livedylan has popped up right away on a new board to insinuate Bob's no good anymore, should get lost and add that watchtower ..........made a mistake by throwing in with dylantree. like dylantree was some agent of Satan? livedylan, aside from not liking dylantree and hoping to hear the last of Bob himself, do you have anything else you're eager to share? like why those two sites are down, knowing, as you seem to, it's a server problem and watchtower was involved in this "difficulty" only because they stupidly aligned themselves with dylantree? why would that be wrong, for them to use the same server as dylantree? there seems to be something you're not telling us. or sort-of telling us here. other than the open declaration of wishing Bob himself would just go away for a long time, which would put you in a minority of one and make you an odd person to even be posting on a dylan fan board.............. unless you have some other eager reason to be here and involved in the proceedings. like excitement those 3 boards are out of commission. the way arsonists need to return to the scene of the fire and watch the buildings burn down or it's no fun for them. just knowing they set the fire somehow isn't enough. they need to be in on hearing other people be upset and see all the commotion. How does it feel?
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Post by livedylan on Sept 1, 2004 10:58:51 GMT -5
Wow! Didn't expect that kind of response from a simple question.
Picking the salient points out of aaronburr's post:
I guess he is insinuating that I think Bob should disappear for a long time because I don't like Dylan. If this is the case aaronburr should read the original post more carefully. Dylan remains the most important artist I have ever listened to - he moves me in ways that no other artist has ever come close to. I care about Dylan. I worry that he is driving himself into the dirt by the continuing the Never-Ending Tour for reasons that no-one I know can fathom.
With respect to the whole dylantree/watchtower situation, the meaning of my comment was simple; if watchtower hadn't jumped onto the dylantree server then it would not have been affected by the current downtime that the dylantree server is suffering. As the dylantree server has been pretty rocky in the last six months it seemed a fairly perverse decision for watchtower to jump on to it but I am sure that it was done for good reasons that I am not aware of.
I think it is unreasonable for aaronburr to infer from my original post that I have anything against dylantree/dylanpool/watchtower - there was just insufficient information for aaronburr to make this inference. Strangely enough, given these facts, aaronburr was of course completely right: I'm not a big fan of any of the sites ;D
dylantree - set out with high aims but has descended into a board for backbiters. I wander over there for non-Dylan related savagery. It's a lot of fun watching people argue about nothing.
dylanpool - kiddies site. It is hard to imagine anyone who is seriously interested in Dylan posting much on this board.
watchtower - tried to pick up the baton from dylantree when it had descended into non-Dylan related irrelevancies but just never attracted sufficient members to get the impetus required to establish itself properly. Lovely people, though.
As to the insinuation that I am like an arsonist returnig to watch the blaze I created, well, what can I say? You got me. Of course, the real reason all three sites are down is because I hacked the dylantree server (the same as I hacked STG, shot JFK, and kissed Jesus in the Garden).
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Post by barney on Sept 1, 2004 12:51:59 GMT -5
The Watchtower, by going on the same server as the pool, lost it's status as a place to go when the pool is down.
People are saying that the ballpark shows are great, and better than last year.....but these are the same people who who thought last year was great at the time.
A major setlist shakeup is what's needed. You can pretty much go back to the car once Honest With Me starts.
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Post by froggie on Sept 1, 2004 16:36:21 GMT -5
i dont think he should take a break but there is definately something lacking in 2004. i read the reviews and they rave about how these shows are the best ever and get my hopes. then i hear it on disk, and hear the same growl that i've haerd since mid 2003.
i'm listening to the 8/8/04 show now.. only on track 2, and i'll admit, this and RDW before it were GOOD. if it keeps up like this, i'll call it a good show but i'm sure the growl will come back in the next few songs.
i'm one of the few fans of the 91 shows.. ok, the lyrics were slurred in places, but he could carry a tune and fine some range in melody more so than this year.
a long break, no. less shows, yes.
from the 2004 shows, dylan is definately putting in more effort than he did last year and the start of this year. that's a good sign, but in a lot of cases it fails.
its good to see he's still on the road, but i do get an uneasy feeling the way people label the current shows as the best ever.
TD7TD is playing now, and it stills sounds mighty fine, apart from the growl.. there still is hope!
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Post by marymac on Sept 1, 2004 17:31:40 GMT -5
Bob still knows how to work the crowd and he is still a Master showman. I've been to only 3 shows since April but Bender was pretty good and he delivered the goods _Ring Them Bells. Wilmington, an early show with Stu _ it was VERY obvious from watching Bob and the band that they were enjoying their performance. Even the Aberdeen show was good enough especially considering the adverse weather which seemed to bring out a little twist in Bob's voice but one thing that was very evident is that Bob and THIS band really enjoy playing with each other _ not to knock Freddy's musicianship (fabulous)_ but the magic just was not there and the magic IS there with Stu in the band. In fact Stu's guitar caresses Bob's voice, an honored mimic, talking back. I have a different expectation from a show starring a 63 year old man as the Song and Dance Man than from a show with a 45 year old man, or 25 y.o. No amount of rest will ever restore the voice of a 63 year old man to a 25 year old voice, same with the corporal body _ but the soul of the 63 y.o. still shines bright and it is a true pleasure to see him perform. May he stay on the Road as long as it suits him, plenty of fans who are delighted to follow the show. I haven't any interest at all in rumors about Bob's health and the need for rest. I don't want to hear rumors or read about his health. Anyone over 50 is OUT OF WARRANTY and so is Bob.
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Post by livedylan on Sept 2, 2004 3:36:22 GMT -5
Thanks to Froggie & Marymac for the considered responses. Maybe I'm just suffering Dylan overload I'll take the time to go back to some of the 2004 recordings that are sitting on the hard drive and give them another listen. Marymac, I fully take your point about having different expectations of a 25 y.o. singer, a 45 y.o. singer and a 63 y.o. singer but don't you think there is an immense difference between the Dylan voice in 2001 and 2004? To aaronburr (a refugee from the backbiting at dylantree if I ever saw one), I guess I will have to give up my pretensions to be a master criminal and get a new job ;-)
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Post by dylanstubs on Sept 2, 2004 11:07:30 GMT -5
I don't think Bob sounds any worse than he did in 2003. In fact, I thought the band sounded very powerful at Brockton (the only one I saw). If Bob feels like taking a break, then yeah he should, but who are we to say otherwise. My feeling is that he will keep touring until he is physically unable to do so. He plays for his life at this point.
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Post by handlevandal on Sept 2, 2004 15:24:48 GMT -5
marymac said:
"I have a different expectation from a show starring a 63 year old man as the Song and Dance Man than from a show with a 45 year old man, or 25 y.o. No amount of rest will ever restore the voice of a 63 year old man to a 25 year old voice, same with the corporal body _ but the soul of the 63 y.o. still shines bright and it is a true pleasure to see him perform. May he stay on the Road as long as it suits him, plenty of fans who are delighted to follow the show."
Perfect. Exactly what I was thinking as I read this thread.
The "growl" is here to stay, complaining about it won't make it go away. And if someone can't stand the growl they really ought to consider that fact that we are lucky enough to have access to lots of those shows recorded when he had the 27 year old voice. Get some boots and enjoy!
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Post by aaronburr on Sept 2, 2004 19:59:31 GMT -5
He's doing some exceptional work with the instrument he has now. You don't have to like it. Billie Holiday did the same thing, as did many other great performers whose voices suffered deterioration. In fact, many people hated Dylan's voice back when he was 25 - it was far too unconventional. If you can't still hear the beautfy in what he can accomplish with it - your loss. I hate to come on message board and hear people insult the man and talk about how they wish he'd give it up, when many people can't even get tickets to sold-out shows. If you're sick of him and wish he'd retire, maybe you shouldn't be trolling around Dylan boards. It's not like this is a "stage" Dylan is going thru, some affection we are being exposed to until he decides to go back to using his "real voice." What you are hearing now is his "real voice." If you can't bear the sound of it, stop listening and stop whining. These boards still exist and the rest of us are following him because we are still finding delight in what he is doing. Stop slagging the man. It would be disrespectful but it's horrible to hear this comments about how Bob sounds at his age. He can't do anything about it.
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Post by sharon on Sept 2, 2004 22:37:49 GMT -5
everything is relative (obviously, we need a cliche here to keep things going ). when i first heard Dylan in the 60s, I thought it was a shame that he didn't have a good voice. When I hear recordings from the sixties now, I think how great his voice sounded then. To me, there is so much more than Dylan's voice to the live experience. It is nothing less than amazing that he still tours, that you can pay money to see him. I hope he gets as much out of it as I do. Sharon aka a woman with no alibi
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vespasian
Member
Don't get up gentlemen, I'm only passing through
Posts: 3
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Post by vespasian on Sept 3, 2004 17:51:06 GMT -5
I must be one of the people you think are deluding themselves but I think Dylan's performances in 2003/4 are stronger and more enjoyable than, say 1997/8. He is having trouble with his voice - it often gets weaker as the show goes on - but he's putting more into the phrasing and melody than he was in the high-pitched whining of the supper club/ unplugged era for example.
Should he take a break? Only if he wants to, or if it means he takes time out to write some more songs. I'm certainly ready to go see him again if he comes over to Europe next year.
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